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Journey On – Episode 7 – Transcript (Ken)

Welcome to Journey On. I’m D.J. Burr, the host and executive producer. I’m a licensed psychotherapist, behavioral addictions specialist, and best-selling author of, “I Just Wanted Love, Recovery of a Codependent Sex and Love addict,” available on Amazon, audible, and iTunes. This podcast is for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault who want to experience a life worth living beyond a tragic past. I’m a survivor just like you and I know the complexity of healing from trauma and I also know the joy that comes from the healing process. Here are our stories and share your own. You are not alone! You two can breathe deep and journey on.

I encourage you to visit the journey on website at www.journeyonpod.com. There you will find a link to sign up for my recovery journey newsletter, learn about my day weekend recovery events for male survivors and my online recovery coaching services for male survivors.

If you have questions, concerns or comments or would like to be on the show, email me at journeyonpodccast@Gmail.com. Journey on his own social media. Tweet us @journeyonpod. Find us on Instagram and Facebook at journeyonpodcast.

The month of April is national sexual assault awareness month, sponsored by the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. This year, the SAAM Campaign is engaging voices. The focus will be on involving coaches, faith leaders and bystanders by preventing sexual assault. Many groups such as salt and he is same problem but them. With this year’s post cards, the NSVRC hope to help these voices talk about preventing sexual assault. You can download the toolkits and postcards as well as other support tools at www.nsvrc.org/saam/getinvolved

Look out for our social media post this month using the hashtag #SAAM and the hashtag #journeyon as we celebrate national sexual assault awareness month. I’ll be looking for your posts with the same hashtags as well. You never know I might reach out to you as well and want to hear your story.
 
On today’s episode of Journey On, I am talking with Ken. Ken is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. Ken and I will be talking about Ken’s childhood sexual abuse, which led to a decades long battle was sexual addiction and a road to recovery through his 12-step fellowship. Ken’s motivation and desire to keep his family intact inspired him to finally reveal the pain of his childhood sexual abuse. His story is thought-provoking, informative and inspiring.
 
DJ       Well, Good morning and welcome to Journey On. Today, I’m speaking with can. Ken is willing to share with us his experience’s, strength and hope around childhood sexual abuse and recovery. Ken, welcome to the show.
 
Ken     Thank you. Glad to be here. I’m really glad to be able to share. I am 71 years old for anyone who needs to know. I’ve been in recovery for about 10 years. That means that I came in when I was 60. I’ve had a long time of dealing with sexual issues as a result of the abuse.
A little bit of family history: I am the fifth of five sons. My dad was a minister and missionary. I grew up in a church family and had all the connections to churches and that kind of thing. I lived in foreign countries. Was a missionary and lived there until I was seven. Came to the United States and lived in California after that. I have pretty good recollection as a young child. We moved to California when I was seven, left behind my very best friend. We moved around. I think in one year I went to four different schools because my dad was moving until we finally settled and found another congregation reworking in.
I remember when I turned 12 I think, I found a pamphlet, a little booklet on my pillow that was about sexuality and that was my education from my parents about what sexuality meant.
 
DJ       And you are supposed to read this and know everything?
 
Ken     Correct. I was supposed to read it. There was nothing said that I should or could ask questions. I think, well, I don’t know whether it was the nature of my relationship to my parents. Maybe it was. I was afraid to ask questions, or hesitant to ask questions. I didn’t think that I should of asked questions. Maybe the assumption was that I should’ve asked questions or known that. Or I would’ve got a lecture or whatever. So, I didn’t ask. I read the book.
About that time, I had started puberty. So, those kinds of events and about that same time I started lessons with a piano teacher – a male teacher. He only had, I found out later, he only had male students. He had no female students. Almost, what I recall, what was maybe a month, maybe two months of meeting with him, he began to, during the lesson, funnel me. It started very casually. Just rubbing on my leg and stuff. Then, reaching my pants and all of that. I do not recall that he ever brought me to ejaculation anything like that because of course that would show. I am makeup that I don’t know for sure what he did while that was going on, but I had piano lessons with him for at least a year and a half. I’m sure every time that that would be the event.
I also recall a time when he took three or four of us on a day trip, picnic. I remember he would stop probably every, I think it took us maybe two hours where we were going, stop every half hour and there were three or four of us boys and we were all his students and he would move each of us to the front seat next to him and would fondle us as he was driving, sort of driving one-handed. I don’t know for sure that he did, I don’t know for sure what was going on. I knew what he was doing to me but I didn’t think that he would necessarily be doing that with the rest of it with the rest of them but looking back on it, why would he be moving us around.
 
DJ       Right – So, during that time, did you have an awareness that what he was doing was not rights, it was wrong, were you curious about it?
 
Ken     I had probably from what I already read, kinda knew that that was inappropriate behavior. That wasn’t good. I had experienced masturbation on my own and I knew the pleasure of that so I think mixed with, mixed with the recognition that it was probably not right were the good feelings that are brought. It felt good. Weather was me or somebody else and I think because he kept a quiet and because I don’t recall he said it but I believe he said it, don’t tell anybody about this. You know, this is just between you and me. So that was probably a year and a half so from the time I was 12 to almost 14. I had piano lessons every week.
 
DJ       So, for every week, a year and a half, you are being molested by your piano teacher? What would happen for you when you would leave the lesson and go home? Were you upset? Were you fearful?
 
Ken     I don’t recall much feeling at all. Not fearful. Unless, the only fear was that if somebody found out but I wasn’t saying. I think by the time my parents came to pick me up because they had a drive to come get me, I’d pretty much calm down. I believe that he had a whole schedule so that five minutes before the piano was over 10 minutes before the piano lesson was over, he’d stop so I could go back to whatever. I don’t think it was for me anyway, it never brought me physical release. I don’t recall ejaculation anything like that. There was just a pleasure of physical touch. That continued for a year and a half, almost 2. Then, because, my father, my parents couldn’t really afford it, my sister began to take lessons and they could afford both of us, so they had a piano teacher come to our house. I stopped going to see him. It wasn’t because anything had been revealed and nothing happened. About six months after that, my parents came and asked me, so and so, who was a student there had told their parents that this teacher had been fondling him. Did he ever do anything like that to you? That’s the first and only time they ever ask me about it or said anything about it, that I knew that they knew anything about it. And that’s only because someone else’s parents were called about it. I said no. I said no.
I know that the reason I said no was that I was afraid that I was to get punished for it.
 
DJ       In what way?
 
Ken     I don’t know. Maybe spanked, maybe lectured… I didn’t really have a clear idea.
 
DJ       So, you thought the punishment was going to come from your parents?
 
Ken     Correct. From my parents. Yes.
That, in a sense, they would say,” didn’t you know that there was something wrong?” Then, could I tell them that I kinda sensed it but it felt good?
I had no conversations with them about sexuality. I got a book. We didn’t talk about that.
My mom did my laundry and never said anything about stained with Whitey, tighty whiteys, you know, anything like that. She’d had for, I had full her older brothers. So probably by that time it was kind of like okay. Commonplace.
I never got any kind of indication that it would be okay to talk to them about sexual issues. I should know that, they gave me a book or whatever. I makeup that part of it was a good deal of it was fear. That’s why said no. They never asked me again. I never volunteered it again. I never told anybody else about it until some counseling that my wife and I went to after we were married.
We’re talking 15, 20 years later, when I was in my 30s when we did that. We had been to a counselor for, family counselor, for some other issues. She’d had a trauma experience too and somehow both of us said it while talking to him. That’s the first time she knew and the first person I talked to about it since it actually happened. So, my parents never knew for sure, never asked me again.
In one of the group sessions after I talked about it when I got into recovery, I talked about how I felt guilty to a certain extent about the behavior and allowing it to happen but also guilty, as I put it, I had lied to my parents. They had asked me did this ever happen and I said no.
Someone had raised the question why were you afraid to talk to your parents about it and I had never thought about that before. So, for me, now there’s this mixture of part of it was I think I grew up with this idea that maybe I didn’t ask my parents very many questions, especially about touching things, about major issues, especially about sexuality. They didn’t want to talk about it so I shouldn’t be talking about it. I was afraid of getting a lecture or punishment some sort even though it was nebulous what that would be. So, I just said no. Partly a fear, partly out of protecting my privacy, maybe to a certain extent in thinking back, and had the mixture of pleasurable feelings. I makeup that it had a significant effect on, along with the relationship I have with my parents, and lack of any real place that I could talk about sexual issues, I had no place else, my father was a pastor, so I should know. I couldn’t go to somebody else in the church and I didn’t have any uncles asked that I thought close to, so I just buried it.
 
DJ       That’s a lot to hold.
 
Ken     In retrospect, absolutely. Absolutely.
 
DJ       I’m curious if you had heard anything in the community about what was happening to this man after your parents had said hey did he touch you because so-and-so said that he had touched them?
 
Ken     Nope! I’d heard no more. Nothing. I had no idea whether he got – I think I’ve found out that he did lose his job but I don’t know whether he lost his teaching position because he quit or because they fired him or whether he was arrested or anything. I don’t know if the behavior stopped. I would just be asked that one question, one time. I said no. They accepted the answer. Maybe because that’s what they wanted to hear because they didn’t have to move on. I’m making that up in my own mind in retrospect but they never brought it up again. I never want to talk about it again, ever.
About that same time, I started masturbation and all of that. I discovered back in, this would’ve been the mid-50s, maybe early 60s, late 50s, early 60s. I discovered men’s magazines and the drugstore so I look through those and look at those pictures. Those were pretty mild. They were sort of like Field & Stream would be right now. They basically had women in bikinis. That would be the most serious until I found a drugstore in town that I could walk down to the head playboys and would look at the nude pictures.
I became fascinated with pictures and text. I kept everything secret. I traced back a lot of that to what I did in response to this molestation. I kept it secret. Anything that had anything to do with my personal sexual activity and likes and dislikes was a very secret.
 
DJ       Private…
 
Ken     Private! Nobody!
I was not old enough to buy any of these magazines. I could read pretty well and I could read fast, so I could skim an article, you know later on, it wouldn’t have been been a friend’s house but in college, I didn’t have any college roommates that had that stuff but if I’d be at their homes, there might be a playboy or a men’s magazine or something and I would look through that. And the reading and the physical objects the pictures, that’s all I needed in order for stimulation. And also, kept private. And secret. The molestation was private and secret, nobody would know. I could go on and do the rest of my life and I believe that, that kind of city templates may be for my later behavior and how I did things.
I later chose to become a minister myself. So here I am with private sexual activity, masturbation and all of that, that I couldn’t talk to anybody about that.
 
DJ       It wasn’t masturbation as it was considered bad was it?
 
Ken     There was some mixed messages about that, at least at, I don’t know if it was through the church body or for just what I just happened to pick up because I sensed okay… The only acceptable sexual activity as a kid that I kinda picked up was that you had to be married. And it had to be intercourse. I don’t know where I picked that up. I don’t think anybody told me that but… So that masturbation was an unacceptable alternative not because it, from one perspective that it kept me from having healthy sexual relationships with anyone else, was because in and of itself it was not, not a good thing to do. Unhealthy to do. You just need to grow up and find a wife and and you could have sex and it would be okay.
 
DJ       And is it okay?
 
Ken     It was okay. But these two sides of me lived side-by-side. The secret side which did the masturbation and pornography and eventually hard-core pornography on the Internet… Then I had the sort of external part of my life that people could see the stuff that I would reveal, the relationships that I had me with my wife. We had some difficulty early on because of some physical, as I mentioned she’d had some trauma, she was having some physical difficulty with intercourse and so we did go to see a counselor about that. His bit of advice was that I just need more experience.
So here I am, a clergy student and I’m supposed to go on, I am told to be faithful to my wife, that I believe from my belief system that the way it should be in here I have a counselor that said that I don’t have enough experience.
 
DJ       And did he mean that you need to have that with other people?
 
Ken     Sexual activity… Yes! With other people. Will that pretty much ended that, for heaven sake?
We managed to kinda work it out. It’s interesting that in my recovery and some of my sharing that with my wife, she kind of felt like there were times when I was just not connected to her emotionally when we were sexually active. And that as my pornography use got worse more intense that there were times when that she just felt like she was a receptacle for me, which tormented the core. And the imagery stays there. When it’s in my mind and when I have a picture or a vocabulary, you just don’t get rid of that. The images would just be there. So, I believe that had a negative effect on our sexual relationships because I didn’t show up in a healthy way my wife felt used I guess. And not that she was contributing. I mean she would contribute to it and be a part of it, but I wasn’t really allowing her to be a full partner with me.
The secrecy part of it is just a killer. Just a killer.
 
DJ       Do you believe that you may have been using the porn and masturbation to know that earlier pain? Is that possible?
 
Ken     I think so. I never really acknowledged the pain to anybody. I never really talked about it in any way like to anybody to have them say, will that was okay, that was not okay will that was that was good that was bad. Nobody ever said that to me. I just, I just made that up in my own mind based on what I had experienced. 
 
DJ       That’s weedy to take care of ourselves.
 
Ken     Yep. I found that I could pleasure, the little bit of a pledge that I was experiencing from the piano teacher, I could not only duplicate that but I could increase it and I could do it for myself and not have to talk to anybody about it, not have to deal with it, not have to make any judgments about what I was doing wrong. I just kept it secret. So, there’s this, I just have this image. I used to watch movies where there would be somebody, there would be this detective in this beautiful waiting room or living room that had nice furniture fireplace, and everything in it be all beautiful and he would push on a bookshelf and the bookshelf would spin around and there do the secret room back here that was full of all kinds of whatever sexual machines and equipment. Or whatever necessarily be sexual. My images. That was my life. I had the secret chamber that I would live in by myself and then I add the rest of my life and I thought that my secret chamber did have any effect on how I lived elsewhere. What I found in recovery is that it did. Subtle, sometimes. Sometimes, very real. I would distance myself from people in retrospect. I didn’t want to talk about things too deeply or too intimately because it might get into some area like that. I did want to do sex jokes because somebody might think whatever his sexual activities like. One of talk about it so the secrecy thing was the real power. The activity was different than for a lot of addicts, sex addicts, but, it was the secrecy thing that I couldn’t get past. I didn’t have anybody that I trusted that I could talk to about it.
I went to week of survivors, was a family of origin. I got to process a lot of pre-things with my parents. Not my mother quite so much as my dad and what was it that made me as a six, seven, eight-year-old not want to talk to my dad about personal things work like wide to this day at that point time did I still have the feeling like he was distant from me to you not care about me as an individual. The fear I felt about answering him correctly came from somewhere prior to that that I had experiences where I had talked about something with him, I don’t recall details at all that he would lecture me, criticize me, punish me, whatever. Therefore, I didn’t talk too much to my parents about those kinds of things. Definitely not about sexuality.
DJ       How did that change a relationship?
 
Ken     In one hand, and put us on an equal footing goes she had had an experience of trauma, childhood trauma. She never been sexually assaulted but almost was. I think there was a better understanding from her about my past but also some acceptance that we were both dealing with trauma, that we never got beyond that in those sessions. Later on she did do some counseling herself for that trauma I didn’t.
 
DJ       You tell a secret. You bring your wife in on this past trauma and then you didn’t do any work right after.
 
Ken     No. I didn’t change my addictive behavior either.
 
DJ       You are still holding on?
 
Ken     I was still holding on. Now the you ask me that question I thought about this before, I think it, in some cases gave me an excuse that if I didn’t show up in our sexual relationships and maybe I could say maybe she didn’t either because of the trauma, physical difficulty they gave me an excuse to act out with masturbation because sex wasn’t very good.
 
DJ       So what if you didn’t show up in the sexual relationship? Would you use your trauma as an excuse?
 
Ken     I don’t know that I ever analyzed my showing up in our sexual relationship. I thought I was doing a pretty good job.
 
DJ       Okay – that is interesting.
           
Ken     In retrospect, talking to my wife afterwards, I was hit and miss on it. I think there were times when, because I would try to manage that addiction and not do pornography and obsessive masturbation and all that kind of stuff. I would not do it for a while. I make up that during those periods of time when I was sort of a dry drunk or whatever you want to call it, I was little more sober, I probably showed up more. Because I didn’t have the images so readily available and the desire for her to be something that she wasn’t sexually. So, I think there were times, but it was very, again I’ll say had missed. I think as I got farther in and probably have been married 40 years before got in recovery. For maybe 30 years, I think it just got to be less and less because about that time I discovered the Internet and Internet pornography in the ease of finding it and I’m sure the frequency of acting out just became more and more and more and more.
 
DJ       Internet pornography is like crack
 
Ken     It was. As long as I had to go looking for a book or an article or catch glimpses of something on the TV program, there is no way I would have the Playboy channel the house but I would’ve bought something scrambled and see what I get. There were always images and words and not ever the real person. Those were real people. The pictures and images of them is what I was racked too. The more of that that I saw, the core of our relationship became sexual, so when I, I was found with pornography on my office computer, that was the precipitating event that basically got me to recovery.. It was in a group of my church leaders so, it was not a secret anymore. They could not be a secret. About five, six or eight different people knew about it. I was going to have to reveal that to some of my supervisors, in order to find out whether to keep my job and I had a talk to my wife about it in order to keep my marriage and I had a talk to my family about it, what would my two children, what would they do with me as her father.
The secret was out. At that point. And that was 10 years ago. I was 60, 61. That’s how long. From about 11 or 12 years old. That’s how long I carried that secret, really.
 
DJ       And that secret sounded like you fueled your addiction.
 
Ken     Oh, it did. I’m convinced at looking back. I know they were family of origin issues that probably led up to the fact that I wouldn’t say anything about it and what I picked up about sexuality either from lack of information or from bad information that I picked up. I had to learn it on my own. I did some good sources and I did some resources but I had no way to discern really and I would ask. I would talk to anybody. The secrecy, again I keep coming back to the secrecy that it did me in. The molestation was the precipitating event, but…
 
DJ       So when you gunned recovery for sex addiction, did you begin talking more about the molestation?
 
Ken     Yes. Absolutely. I think that was the secret was out about my behavior and I agreed to go to counseling and to do what I needed to do to get treatment to stop the behavior and I was referred by my own personal counselor through the church body to a person who kinda specialized in dealing with sexual addiction. I was in a group and I would come to meetings and I found a place that was safe to talk about mostly because many of them had been in the place that I had been. The behavior had been the same. There what even from my perspective was egregious more serious, external. It wasn’t secret, it was behavior with prostitutes, with multiple affairs or whatever. My never got there, thank God but it was just as destructive in many cases. So I talk about it particularly in men’s group I think I talked about a first because there was a small group and I knew these guys. There were five or six of us. But then I did talk about it in general terms about being molested in the meetings when I would share. Then it became real obvious and comfortable for me in a sense after I went to the weeklong deal with family of origin stuff. I got to process the relationship of the molestation and the response in my feeling guilty in my feeling like I lied to my parents when really in a sense I was defending myself the best I could. That’s how I knew how to take care of myself.
 
DJ       That’s the truth. You had to defend yourself. You didn’t sound like you had awareness that anyone else would be available to defend you.
 
Ken     No. And I didn’t know what was going to happen to the other kids. They didn’t say what happened to the other guys. Did one of the other parents beat him silly or I don’t know. I was fearful. In a sense, I was 12 years old and I made up something in my mind that scared me to be honest about it and maybe I didn’t want to give up the sense that it felt good and have to admit that I shouldn’t be feeling that way.
 
DJ       That’s heavy. A lot of survivors have had similar experiences like that where the fact of telling someone that what was happening within the abuse context was pleasurable. The fact is, that there is no way you could ever control that. Our bodies are built to respond.
 
Ken     Right. And, you know, and recovery and ice as I got older and kind of did a little more reading, those are physical responses of sexuality that’s one of the physical needs and expressions that we have. There’s appropriate and appropriate and cultures have a lot to say about that. It is, it is normal and there is nothing abnormal about sexuality. Well, I don’t think that at 12 years old I had any sense of that. I had no information. No information.
 
DJ       I want to know when you left the survivors workshop, what did you leave with? What new information, what new insight did you leave with?
 
Ken     Part of it was a new recognition that my feelings that came out of that were, they were not the best for me but they were my feelings. That my, that whatever family situation I had contributed to that to a certain extent of how I responded. So, that in a certain sense I could hold my parents responsible for some of that. I made decision to do certain things but they were in an environment that was not conducive to conversation and communication. I could also acknowledge that given what I think they knew at the time, they did the best they could, which was for my perspective not all that great. I wished it could’ve been better. I also learned that I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to behave and act and create an environment that would duplicate that. And I’d already done that to a certain extent for 40 years.
 
DJ       The secrets… the porn…
 
Ken     The secrets, the lack of communication, the not being honest and not being willing to listen and in a sense to have intimate relationship with somebody that did involve sexuality at all that I could show up as a caring individual. In bringing, coming out of that, came a sense that I could have a better relationship with my wife and with my kids that really wasn’t about sexuality at all. It was about being a person of integrity, the person who cared, about others who was willing to be open and honest about himself and what was going on. The feelings that I was having. To not let myself be, not be walked all over and I didn’t have to minimize me. But I didn’t have to be distant to anyone else and my sexuality was just it just separated me in the behavior I did was secret to me but it affected my relationship with people around me. I think I came out with, I was able to express real anger at the family of the origin issues that were there that I felt were lacking and I could vent about that but I could let it go because I had a chance to that.
 
DJ       Did you also let go any anger that you had toward the piano teacher?
 
Ken     Actually, yeah. I had no, no other information other than what I had experienced in the last time I saw him. In some sense, I wished that at some point in time he’d been punished, but I don’t know. I never found out. Frankly, I a thought that maybe I should look it up. I bet I could Google this guy. I remember his last name and it was distinctive enough that I could Google it. But I don’t really want to know because it wouldn’t change anything, it would be more revenge than really helpful because the help I got was ruling of the process that. Moving on from it. Being able to say, you know what, that isn’t the way I have to live or have to show up. There is another way and that’s kind of what recovery has shown me. There’s a way to be present with somebody or with individuals. I can be open and honest. I have to be sensitive to where it’s safe to me to be completely vulnerable but there are places where I can be totally vulnerable and people are not gonna stomp all over me. There are people who love me and care about me and because I discovered a recovery that when I talked honestly with my wife and I talked honestly with my children and they, over a period of time could see some change of behavior and attitude, that they didn’t hold that against me. They did not kick me out or throw me under the bus. I think as a kid that wasn’t an analogy that we had back then but did I think that my parents were going to do – the parents were going to throw me under the bus. I was afraid 
 
DJ       I think that’s very common for us survivors to have a similar experience of being fearful of being rejected or punished by our parents for speaking our truth so we hold the secret. But that secret causes significant harm and damage to hold it in.
 
Ken     Even getting into recovery, I recall the hardest part for the 12-step program, the first step talks about being powerless and unmanageable, there is fear that if I do that, what’s can happen to me? If I’m honest about where I was and what I did in my behavior, there is a fear of being open. There’s a comfort, a false comfort in full security and thinking that I’ll be safe if I just don’t say anything. For me that was a big first step and I believe that made it easier for me is, I did make the decision. Someone else had exposed me and has having seeing pornography on the computer. Once the secret was out, then okay. Now the secrets out. I don’t have to worry about that. My fear is, now that it’s out, what’s can happen to me. I’ll take care of myself I’ll do what I need to do to secure myself. That first step was a powerful, powerful transformation point in my life. The precipitating event, having exposed was significant because it led to that. There’s some sense in which, I wish somebody had caught me 20 years earlier or whatever.
 
DJ       I wish somebody had been there for you as a kid.

Ken     Or even as a kid.
 
DJ       Maybe even probed a little deeper to find out what was going on for you but it sounds like you’ve had a very credible journey to understanding who you are and understanding your history and living life differently now in recovery. Every day you get to decide whether you’re going to be truthful or not. I imagine that every day you choose to be your authentic self.
 
Ken     Every day is a new day. I’ve also gotten to the point now 10 years into recovery where I can really same way family and guests who were there and others, I can really be present for them and I don’t necessarily leave the room. I don’t necessarily sit there in space out. I’m not always involved in the conversation but I can be there. I think it was my daughter that said to me, you know, it seemed to us like you are always concerned about how we were doing. How was school, how is this? I do remember making conscious, intention as a father to be more present to my kids that I felt like my dad was. These were our first two kids and we stopped at two so there wasn’t five or six down the road. She said that we never know how you were doing. You never told us how you were doing. I thought that was very revealing statement. I think that’s true. I would manage things. I tried to look good. I didn’t talk very much about the struggles that I was going through or I would try to cover up my anger, irritation at other people.
 
DJ       Learned behavior.
 
Ken     Yeah. So I could accept it from others but I could be a good listener and a ready ear but I wasn’t very open to them. And that’s one of the things they commented about lately and my son to. We can talk about anything, just about anything. And so I do see each day, I’ve come to view each day, no matter what the weather is like, I’m retired now so I don’t have job pressures that I need to look at. I have some health issues and I’ve moved to a new house and a new community doing what I want to do in retirement but I get to look at each day as a kind of it has value in and of itself. It is a gift from God. I’ve learned to value people to. I’m not so quick to judge where somebody is. I thought my opinions and I can very easily and people can very easily get me into my opinions if they want to hear them. I think I’m much less judgmental than I used to be maybe that’s because I was subconsciously judging myself.
 
DJ       Maybe so.
 
Ken     Maybe so.
 
DJ       Ken, what would you tell our listeners who are may be on able to share at this point, what kind of words of advice could you give them, the ones that are still suffering?
 
Ken     Find someone that they trust and then be honest.
 
DJ       It is important to be honest.
 
Ken     To be honest. And the sooner you can talk about it, the sooner you can begin to deal with it. And don’t think you can bury it.
 
DJ       The message that I have for our listeners is to hear our stories and share your own, you’re not alone. That was the most important that I have learned from your story is that you don’t have to be alone. You don’t have to be alone with the secret. You can share it and get some help. Can thank you so much for being here and being authentic and transparent about your recovery journey. I’m thankful that you are willing to sit down with me and to share your story.
 
Ken     You’re welcome. You’re welcome.
I’ll just add one little highlight. I got into recovery shortly before our 40th wedding anniversary and there was a very real possibility that we might not get to a 41st depending on my recovery. Kind of on my openness and willingness to be a part of that. We will celebrate our 50th anniversary this summer. She has, she has been there. And I am grateful for her presence in my life because she was, she had choices and she chose to stick with me her counselor told her to give me a year, the year came and went and it’s been 10.
 
DJ       It’s a blessing.
 
Ken     it is. There is good news to be had.
 
DJ       there is good news to be had exclamation as a great way to end. Thank you so much
 
Ken     You’re welcome, my pleasure.
 

The good news is that you can hear more stories like hands on each episode of Journey On. Don’t forget to subscribe today on iTunes or Google play. Also check out our website at journeyonpod.com. I want to thank Ken once again for sharing his experience strengthened hope today. Ken has been integral to my recovery process and I believe his story of survival is profound and inspiring. Thank you for listening to each episode of Journey On!

There is a new tool available to all of you Journey On followers, it’s Journey On Survivors, a private Facebook group for survivors to network, build support, and discuss all things Journey On. You can find the link on our homepage, at journeyonpod.com or going directly to it at bitly/journeyonesurvivors. I’ll be on the group to answer any questions or to provide support. Check us out.  bitly/journeyonesurvivors or search Journey On Survivors on Facebook.
 
Journey On is looking to hear from you. If you’re interested in sharing your experience, strength and hope, email us at journeyonpodcast@Gmail.com for details.

Journey On’s production is currently funded in whole by me as part of my desire to provide support for those who are still suffering. Production costs fluctuate and can be prohibitive in terms of what I can offer our audience. You can help support Journey On’s mission by supporting the production. There are two options. You can donate the amount of your choice directly from your cell phone by texting the word journey to 855-735-2437, that’s Journey to 855-735-2437 or you can become a patron of the show by setting up a monthly contribution by going to patreon.com/journeyon – that’s patreon.com/journeyon. Once there, you can select a contribution level of your choice. Thank you for considering.

Don’t forget to visit journeyonpod.com and sign up for my recovery journey newsletter. Once you have subscribed, you will get more information about my weekend mail survivor retreats and my online coaching services for male survivors.

Journey On is produced by D.J. Burr and Recovery Legacy Network, bringing you recovery on all fronts. Learn more at www.recoveryLegacynetwork.com.
 
Today’s music features tracks by CDK and Airtone. You can learn more about the tracks from our website at journeyonpod.com. 

Until next time, breath deep [inhales] [exhales] and Journey On.

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